How Tariffs May Affect Eye Care

How Tariffs May Affect Eye Care
By Gretchyn M. Bailey, NCLC, FAAO


With the recent change in US leadership, tariffs have become part of day-to-day conversation. A tariff is a tax placed on goods entering or leaving a country by that country’s government.

For many, tariffs belong in macro economic discussions. However, tariffs have the potential to do more than affect multinational companies—effects from tariffs are likely to affect small independent businesses and ordinary people, such as optometrists and their patients.

At Vision Expo East in Orlando last week, in coordination with The Vision Council, attorney F.D. “Rick” Van Arnam, Jr., a partner at Barnes, Richardson & Colburn in New York, discussed how tariffs may affect eye care and outlined how today’s looming tariffs first became part of the landscape.

Tariff origins
In 2018, the Office of the United States Trade Representative opened a Section 301 investigation on intellectual property misappropriation by China that officials believe were adverse to US interests. Specifically, American companies were required to release proprietary technology to Chinese business partners as a prerequisite to the US company manufacturing or distributing in China.

Under Section 301 of the law, the federal government is able to take remedial steps to correct such bad actions. Therefore, a 25% tariff was assessed on merchandise made in China. At the time, the tariff was limited to products negatively affected by the Chinese bad actions, such as machinery. However, many more products were added to the tariff list.

China retaliated by enacting its own 25% tariff on US agriculture, of which China was a big consumer. China also identified other products that were subject to additional tariffs.

In return, the US created an additional tariff of 7.5% on a broader list of products—on top of the already established 2.5% duty on many imported items. That additional tariff increased duty on Chinese goods to 10%.

Note that a Court of Appeals case is challenging Section 301 tariffs. The case will likely be decided in the next few months, and the decision is likely to be appealed to the Supreme Court.

Eye care involvement
Eye care was affected by the additional tariffs by the involvement of things like spectacle lenses, plano sunglasses, over-the-counter (OTC) readers, low vision equipment, and lens finishing equipment.

However, companies were able to petition for relief—or exclusion—from Section 301 tariffs. If one company was granted exclusion, all other companies with similar products were also granted exclusion. For about a year, exclusions were issued for spectacle frames and reading glasses. Those exclusions ended in 2020, and attempts to renew them were not successful.

In February 2025, an additional 10% duty was announced for any Chinese origin product.

Says Van Arnam: “That 10% the eyewear company is paying to import those plastic spectacle frames from China just jumped to 20%. The same frame, if you bought it today from say Vietnam, would be a 2.5% duty; it is now 20% if it's coming from China. China is the biggest by far producer of of optical products, particularly frames.”

Mexico and Canada tariffs
Also in February 2025, a 25% tariff was announced for products coming from Mexico and Canada. This tariff was framed as action taken against the countries for allowing fentanyl and illegal immigrants into the US.

Says Van Arnam: “This was a huge deal because Mexico and Canada are two of our largest trading partners. “They are are border allies and historically have had good relations with the United States. “We have free trade agreements with both of them, which allow the vast majority of products that are made in Canada and Mexico to come into the United States free of duty and for products that are made in the United States to go into Canada and Mexico free of duty.”

Due to both Canada and Mexico making overtures to remedy the problems identified by the US, tariff enforcement was paused for 30 days. That 30-day period expires on March 4.

“Some companies in the eyecare industry who weren’t affected by the China trade were panicking because they would now be impacted by Canadian or Mexican trade,” says Van Arnam. “There is a lot of cross-border trade. You might have a lens processing facility on the Mexican side of the border with lenses sent over for processing and brought back into the United States for distribution.”

He wonders how the US will measure success for the remedies proposed by both countries.

“What metric do you use to measure fewer immigrants coming in or less fentanyl coming across the border?” he says.

Aluminum and steel
Within the past two weeks, a 25% tariff on raw aluminum and steel (and their derivative products) was announced. Most manufacturers in the eyecare space use both metals in their production, from frames to equipment.

Says Van Arnam: “These costs will ripple through the supply chain because I don’t believe any company will be big enough to absorb the cost and say it’s all on us.”

The additional duty will eventually end up in the cost of goods everywhere, including eye care. Van Arnam foresees challenges in the future because costs may not necessarily be passed onto patients or consumers due to negotiated contracts.

“Patients may have insurance which is paying only X amount,” he says. “Or maybe you’re selling frames to Veterans Affairs which won’t allow you to increase your price. There won't be a direct line from the 25% paid on the raw material to the finished value of the of the eyewear. Some of it will be absorbed, but at some point, you're going to see price hikes and hear people talking about how these tariffs will be inflationary.”

Tariffs on aluminum and steel were enacted prior to 2020; however, exclusions and agreements with other countries largely mitigated the effects. Those terms expire on March 12.

Reciprocal tariffs
The federal government is looking into imposing a tariff on all imported products, regardless of origin, to match the originating countries’ tariffs.

“There is a perceived injustice that the United States has tariffs that are historically lower than those of other countries while other countries have tariffs that are historically higher,” Van Arnam says. “The federal government is looking at what we charge for an item vs what country X charges for that item. If we are charging 2.5% for a pair of spectacle frames, and hypothetically, India is charging 10%, there is a 7.5% gap. Under the reciprocal theory, you would pay an extra 7.5% duty to import spectacle frames of Indian origin into the United States so the tariff amounts would match.”

Addressing reciprocal tariffs would likely create logistical challenges for smaller companies without the resources to quickly pivot.

Federal agencies involved with international trade are required to report by April 1 where reciprocal duties might apply. For example, will the duty apply to specific countries or specific products?

Upcoming tariff deadlines
• March 4: The 30-day pause on Mexican and Canadian tariffs expires. A 25% tariff may go into effect.
• March 12: Previous exclusions and agreements about raw aluminum and steel expire. A 25% tariff may go into effect.
• April 1: Reports due to identify where reciprocal tariffs might be applied.
 
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Good catch, Gretchyn! Something useful did come out of Expo East :)

I think the important thing that everyone should look to is whether or not your suppliers are going to bump the cost of materials, and if so, by how much?

While larger companies [Essilux?] may try to absorb the cost for a while, my expectation is that smaller frame and lens companies will have to pass the cost on to you, the consumer.

Curious to see what everyone's lab bills look like in a couple of months.

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The other major impact could be labour. If the tariffs persist and manufactures scramble to increase their manufacturing base in the USA there will likely be a lot more competition for workers - the labour market is already tight at 4% unemployment.
 
The other major impact could be labour. If the tariffs persist and manufactures scramble to increase their manufacturing base in the USA there will likely be a lot more competition for workers - the labour market is already tight at 4% unemployment.
In frame/lens manufacturing specifically though, I wonder how likely that would be.

It is incredibly capital-intensive to create new manufacturing facilities. And if you're going through the exercise, I suppose making the new places highly automated would be the way to go (ie, one reason why JJVC can manufacture their contacts in Jacksonville is because their production lines have almost no humans around.)
 
Reflection on the recent past would indicate a change in editing and philosophy of what would be deemed political.... Not shocking but predictable..

I will make no further comment, the point has been made, as you have requested...I will stop here.
 
Reflection on the recent past would indicate a change in editing and philosophy of what would be deemed political.... Not shocking but predictable..

I will make no further comment, the point has been made, as you have requested...I will stop here.
The whole point of the piece was that when Essilux or your lab sends you a letter that says "we've raised the price of your finished work 30% across the board, because of tariffs", you can make a more informed judgment as to whether or not that's reasonable or if the increase is out-of-proportion to what the tariff actually did to the cost of your goods.

The topic is political in that politicians decided to implement these policies, but Gretchyn was in no way commenting on the policy itself, other than the facts of what you're going to have to deal with, for better or worse.
 
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If a thread was started 3 years ago with the line of "With the current leaderships policies, the rising cost of everything has become a problem as inflation continues to increase...." the thread would have been edited or deleted as political.

The fact that this thread was started by a moderator and commented on by Adam ....speaks volumes...

Either edited this thread or delete it for political bias...

I no longer ask for explanations of the "Why" as they are never answered.
Brent, that's not what I said AT ALL.

I said: With the recent change in US leadership, tariffs have become part of day-to-day conversation.

That was the first line. No blame. We are talking about tariffs now...just about every day. That was a jumping-off point to introduce the topic of tariffs and how they may affect eye care.

No more. No less.
 
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But what she said was literally, factually accurate - when leadership changed, the word "tariff" which is something most people never even think about, suddenly was everywhere (see below) --

View attachment 46352

Her piece describes the real-world implications of this policy to ECPs. No judgement.

It is the same as when our local paper of record states something like ... "The Portland Metro government has signed into law a 1% income tax on all residents to help support housing services for the homeless population".

Factual, useful info, describing an actual law that people have to follow. No commentary injected.

One could omit the “recent change in US leadership” phrase. Or amend with “Yet again in US history…”

This wouldn’t alter the article’s theme or our extensive history with tariffs, the economics of same, or current events. Various political parties have supported/implemented tariffs. There is often an “it depends” aspect to them. Living in an agricultural area, you grow up hearing of/reading about/living with the effects, good or bad.
 
I’ve been asking all my reps what their companies are saying about the effects of the new tariffs. None of them have heard anything. I’m very glad to get this very sober explanation.

May I share it?
 
I’ve been asking all my reps what their companies are saying about the effects of the new tariffs. None of them have heard anything. I’m very glad to get this very sober explanation.

May I share it?
Thanks for your kind words, Karen.

Yes, absolutely, you are welcome to share it. I appreciate your asking.
 
Thanks for your kind words, Karen.

Yes, absolutely, you are welcome to share it. I appreciate your asking.
Interestingly, just as I finished reading your article, a frame rep came in. I mentioned the great article, and he schooled me that the frames will be made in USA. I said the raw materials will have tariffs, or we could dig it up ourselves. And unless manufacturing is highly automated, labor costs alone will increase the price.

Sorry— I didn’t pull my punches.
 
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Regarding tariffs on eyeglass frames imported from China: Are importers/wholesalers simply passing the tariff cost directly to retailers (private practices), or are they applying their standard markup to the tariff amount as well—effectively profiting from the tariff?

For example:

  • A frame costs the wholesaler $10
  • After a 10% tariff, their cost is $11
With direct pass-through: They add only the $1 tariff to your price (a frame that was $15 becomes $16)

With percentage markup: If they use a 50% markup on all costs including the tariff, that same frame would cost $16.50 ($11 × 1.5)

This 50¢ difference represents profit the wholesaler makes on the tariff itself. For large companies importing thousands of frames, this adds up to significant additional profit arising directly from the tariff.
 
Regarding tariffs on eyeglass frames imported from China: Are importers/wholesalers simply passing the tariff cost directly to retailers (private practices), or are they applying their standard markup to the tariff amount as well—effectively profiting from the tariff?

For example:

  • A frame costs the wholesaler $10
  • After a 10% tariff, their cost is $11
With direct pass-through: They add only the $1 tariff to your price (a frame that was $15 becomes $16)

With percentage markup: If they use a 50% markup on all costs including the tariff, that same frame would cost $16.50 ($11 × 1.5)

This 50¢ difference represents profit the wholesaler makes on the tariff itself. For large companies importing thousands of frames, this adds up to significant additional profit arising directly from the tariff.
This is the big question, and the reason we posted the article at all -- when people receive letters from their suppliers, I'd ask them to post them here, so we can try to figure out what it is they are actually doing.

I think we all remember the pandemic, when businesses used "supply chain" issues to raise prices. However when analyzed more closely, some businesses took advantage of the chaos to increase prices over and above what was necessary.

ECPs are in a somewhat precarious position on this one, since there is an effective monopsony on materials. That is, it will not be easy to switch suppliers since there are so few of them.

Which is why we'd like people to let us know when any company notifies you of a price increase, so we can dig in and assess its reasonableness. That's what the press is for, right?
 
This is the big question, and the reason we posted the article at all -- when people receive letters from their suppliers, I'd ask them to post them here, so we can try to figure out what it is they are actually doing.

I think we all remember the pandemic, when businesses used "supply chain" issues to raise prices. However when analyzed more closely, some businesses took advantage of the chaos to increase prices over and above what was necessary.

ECPs are in a somewhat precarious position on this one, since there is an effective monopsony on materials. That is, it will not be easy to switch suppliers since there are so few of them.

Which is why we'd like people to let us know when any company notifies you of a price increase, so we can dig in and assess its reasonableness. That's what the press is for, right?
BTW just for a concrete example of what I'm talking about, the laptop manufacturer Acer announced that they'll be hiking prices 10% -- which is exactly in-line with the tariff they are facing (see link below).

This is necessary and unavoidable for them, but at least they are shooting straight and not trying to throw in some crap "margin" on top of the 10%. Because they are in a highly competitive market, there is less room for shenanigans. Again, I worry much more about ECPs because the supplier concentration is much greater.

https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/18/acer_hikes_us_prices/

"We will have to adjust the end user price to reflect the tariff," Chen said in an interview with the UK newspaper. "We think 10 percent probably will be the default price increase because of the import tax. It's very straightforward."

Goods manufactured in China and imported into the US now face an extra 10 percent tariff, but shipments that arrived before February 4, 2025, were not affected. Acer's price hike, Chen noted, won't apply to existing stock already in the US before that date and may take a few weeks to reach consumers.
 
BTW just for a concrete example of what I'm talking about, the laptop manufacturer Acer announced that they'll be hiking prices 10% -- which is exactly in-line with the tariff they are facing (see link below).

This is necessary and unavoidable for them, but at least they are shooting straight and not trying to throw in some crap "margin" on top of the 10%. Because they are in a highly competitive market, there is less room for shenanigans. Again, I worry much more about ECPs because the supplier concentration is much greater.

https://www.theregister.com/2025/02/18/acer_hikes_us_prices/

"We will have to adjust the end user price to reflect the tariff," Chen said in an interview with the UK newspaper. "We think 10 percent probably will be the default price increase because of the import tax. It's very straightforward."

Goods manufactured in China and imported into the US now face an extra 10 percent tariff, but shipments that arrived before February 4, 2025, were not affected. Acer's price hike, Chen noted, won't apply to existing stock already in the US before that date and may take a few weeks to reach consumers.

Oh my . That is a stretch comparing Acer to CLs.
 
Oh my . That is a stretch comparing Acer to CLs.
Frames, Lenses, and CLs are similar to computers in that they are all consumer goods made with raw materials sourced from all over the world. And sometimes turned into finished products overseas.

Unless exceptions are carved out, they will be subject to tariffs, similar to a PC.
 
Frames, Lenses, and CLs are similar to computers in that they are all consumer goods made with raw materials sourced from all over the world. And sometimes turned into finished products overseas.

Unless exceptions are carved out, they will be subject to tariffs, similar to a PC.
For more on Tariffs and the Ophthalmic Industry...

blobid2_1715804934528.png




The Vision Council is hosting a webinar about tariffs on Thursday, March 6 at 2 pm ET. Members of The Vision Council and media can join the event live or view a recording afterwards.



The webinar will explain the latest updates on the fluid situation regarding tariffs on products originating in Mexico, Canada, and China and the impacts of these tariffs on the vision industry.



Time: Mar 6, 2025 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting

https://thevisioncouncil.zoom.us/j/86390494340?pwd=BXLxpFfibSjNNkj5qGfKJhMqLA1ndK.1



Meeting ID: 863 9049 4340

Passcode: 486059
 
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For more on Tariffs and the Ophthalmic Industry...

blobid2_1715804934528.png




The Vision Council is hosting a webinar about tariffs on Thursday, March 6 at 2 pm ET. Members of The Vision Council and media can join the event live or view a recording afterwards.



The webinar will explain the latest updates on the fluid situation regarding tariffs on products originating in Mexico, Canada, and China and the impacts of these tariffs on the vision industry.



Time: Mar 6, 2025 02:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada)

Join Zoom Meeting

https://thevisioncouncil.zoom.us/j/86390494340?pwd=BXLxpFfibSjNNkj5qGfKJhMqLA1ndK.1




Meeting ID: 863 9049 4340

Passcode: 486059
I suspect that's going to be with the same guy that Gretchyn quoted in her story.

I'm not sure how useful speculation is, other than to prevent people from being surprised when they get a letter from their lab indicating a price increase.

That to me is the more interesting piece -- what it will look like when the companies make a firm announcement as to how much prices are actually rising.

Some larger companies might try to eat the cost of the tariff for a while, they could use this as a competitive tool to build market share.

So for instance, just a few minutes ago I saw Apple came out with their new M4 Macbook Air, they dropped the price down to a ridiculously low $999 (the machine is incredibly powerful). Apple are very obviously eating any tariff and eroding their own margins in order to pick up market share against competing PCs. (Other PC manufacturers have pre-announced 10% price hikes due tariffs.) Unfortunately, few companies can afford to do what Apple is doing, but for those that can, it is a valid strategy.
 
As I watch the market indexes SOAR (Dow is up nearly 600 points) in the time period (an hour ago) since Trump once again "paused" some of the tariffs.

This is an example of exactly how politics and our business practices relate. The full extent of how the tariffs may affect our businesses is not clear, but what is clear is that it will. Not just because acquiring frames and lenses and ophthalmic equipment will be cost us more. It goes much deeper than that. If our patients are having difficulty paying for fruits and vegetables, or cars, or their home remodel cost just skyrocketed, their electric bills go through the roof as Canada retaliates and shuts off Niagara Falls power station----ya think they're going to spend $$ on eye care?

I searched ODWire for "tariffs" and there are bunch of threads that Paul started 5, 6 years ago in first Trump administration. You should check them out.

I'm going to use this temporary pause in the destruction of the stock market to sell what I can and get into a safer place.
 
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As I watch the market indexes SOAR (Dow is up nearly 600 points) in the time period (an hour ago) since Trump once again "paused" some of the tariffs, I ask myself: why did he do that? Is he finally figuring out and understanding the local, regional, national, international negative impacts of his trade war or simply manipulating the stock market for his wealthy friends?

This is an example of exactly how politics and our business practices relate. The full extent of how the tariffs may affect our businesses is not clear, but what is clear is that it will. Not just because acquiring frames and lenses and ophthalmic equipment will be cost us more. It goes much deeper than that. If our patients are having difficulty paying for fruits and vegetables, or cars, or their home remodel cost just skyrocketed, their electric bills go through the roof as Canada retaliates and shuts off Niagara Falls power station----ya think they're going to spend $$ on eye care? Have you even ventured a guess as to how Trump's Project 2025 plans will affect health insurance? I have. Private buyers wont be able to afford it. ACA buyers wont because their subsidies are going bye-bye. And businesses caught in the tariff squeeze are going to have to "downsize" their benefit packages. Bottom line is we loose patients.

I searched ODWire for "tariffs" and there are bunch of threads that Paul started 5, 6 years ago in first Trump administration. You should check them out. Normal people learn from their mistakes. Insane people repeat them. Clever people with a hidden agenda manipulate their world, in this case with callous disregard for the rest of us.

I'm going to use this temporary pause in the destruction of the stock market to sell what I can and get into a safer place.
Thanks, you saved me typing out a similar post. ✌️
 
If we are all of a sudden going allow discussion of disastrous economic policies I have 4 years of pent up complaints.
Mike -- there have been numerous threads about inflation over the past several years, you even created some of them! (with 169 replies!) So I'm not sure where this is coming from.
 
Mike -- there have been numerous threads about inflation over the past several years, you even created some of them! (with 169 replies!) So I'm not sure where this is coming from.
I am not talking about inflation right now but if you can't read post #20 and not see politics then I can't help you. I like Larry alot. He is a great guy and a great doc that cares for his patients but his post is blatantly political.

It is no secret that I lean way conservative BUT I have gone out of my way to not engage in politics since the rules were changed right about the time Biden was elected. That is fine with me, your house your rules, but lets not suddenly develop blindness now that a new guy is POTUS.

It is stuff precisely like this that has led to no less than at least 15-20 posters no longer posting here. You don't see it but others do.
 
I am not talking about inflation right now but if you can't read post #20 and not see politics then I can't help you. I like Larry alot. He is a great guy and a great doc that cares for his patients but his post is blatantly political.

It is no secret that I lean way conservative BUT I have gone out of my way to not engage in politics since the rules were changed right about the time Biden was elected. That is fine with me, your house your rules, but lets not suddenly develop blindness now that a new guy is POTUS.

It is stuff precisely like this that has led to no less than at least 15-20 posters no longer posting here. You don't see it but others do.
I am confused -- YOU posted literally dozens of posts about inflation. Unmoderated -- I didn't stop you from starting the thread last year, or taking it out several hundred posts. You were able to do as you pleased without an issue.

Tariffs are no different than inflation - they are the result of economic policies that we are all subject to. Just because a president you like decided to go this route, doesn't mean we can't talk about the impacts of them, for good or ill. Same with inflation last year, right?
 
As I watch the market indexes SOAR (Dow is up nearly 600 points) in the time period (an hour ago) since Trump once again "paused" some of the tariffs, I ask myself: why did he do that? Is he finally figuring out and understanding the local, regional, national, international negative impacts of his trade war or simply manipulating the stock market for his wealthy friends?

This is an example of exactly how politics and our business practices relate. The full extent of how the tariffs may affect our businesses is not clear, but what is clear is that it will. Not just because acquiring frames and lenses and ophthalmic equipment will be cost us more. It goes much deeper than that. If our patients are having difficulty paying for fruits and vegetables, or cars, or their home remodel cost just skyrocketed, their electric bills go through the roof as Canada retaliates and shuts off Niagara Falls power station----ya think they're going to spend $$ on eye care? Have you even ventured a guess as to how Trump's Project 2025 plans will affect health insurance? I have. Private buyers wont be able to afford it. ACA buyers wont because their subsidies are going bye-bye. And businesses caught in the tariff squeeze are going to have to "downsize" their benefit packages. Bottom line is we loose patients.

I searched ODWire for "tariffs" and there are bunch of threads that Paul started 5, 6 years ago in first Trump administration. You should check them out. Normal people learn from their mistakes. Insane people repeat them. Clever people with a hidden agenda manipulate their world, in this case with callous disregard for the rest of us.

I'm going to use this temporary pause in the destruction of the stock market to sell what I can and get into a safer place.

Larry I apologize for getting you caught up in this. I know your heart is in the right place.......

BUT Adam if you can't see politics in the above post then you are absolutely blind and need to go see Charlie for an eye exam.
 
As I watch the market indexes SOAR (Dow is up nearly 600 points) in the time period (an hour ago) since Trump once again "paused" some of the tariffs, I ask myself: why did he do that? Is he finally figuring out and understanding the local, regional, national, international negative impacts of his trade war or simply manipulating the stock market for his wealthy friends?

This is an example of exactly how politics and our business practices relate. The full extent of how the tariffs may affect our businesses is not clear, but what is clear is that it will. Not just because acquiring frames and lenses and ophthalmic equipment will be cost us more. It goes much deeper than that. If our patients are having difficulty paying for fruits and vegetables, or cars, or their home remodel cost just skyrocketed, their electric bills go through the roof as Canada retaliates and shuts off Niagara Falls power station----ya think they're going to spend $$ on eye care? Have you even ventured a guess as to how Trump's Project 2025 plans will affect health insurance? I have. Private buyers wont be able to afford it. ACA buyers wont because their subsidies are going bye-bye. And businesses caught in the tariff squeeze are going to have to "downsize" their benefit packages. Bottom line is we loose patients.

I searched ODWire for "tariffs" and there are bunch of threads that Paul started 5, 6 years ago in first Trump administration. You should check them out. Normal people learn from their mistakes. Insane people repeat them. Clever people with a hidden agenda manipulate their world, in this case with callous disregard for the rest of us.

I'm going to use this temporary pause in the destruction of the stock market to sell what I can and get into a safer place.
I'd like to keep this away from partisan politics (ie, the "who") and talk about the "how", and "what to do" in the environment that we find ourselves in. Same as we did with the inflation threads last year.

There are numerous issues with tariffs raising consumer prices -- this effect is well known and has been for 100 years (recall the great depression was worsened by the "Smoot-Hawley act" that we all had to read about in econ textbooks. Look it up, it was a bunch of tariffs.)

Regardless of the effect of the tariffs, their impact tended to be predictable -- meaning businesses could plan for the impact going forward.

The trouble here is that rapidly threatening a tariff, hastily implementing it, starting a trade war, then withdrawing it within days is not great, because of the instability it causes.

So your trade partners lose trust in you. Supply chains become less stable. Trade partners may not lower their retaliatory tariffs. And on and on -- it all leads to instability. And the one thing that Wall St hates more than anything is instability. For whatever reason (COVID was another great example... too many unknown unknowns to plan properly.)
 
So can we discuss why the tariffs are being used in the first place? Or are only negative views permitted?
 
Larry I apologize for getting you caught up in this. I know your heart is in the right place.......

BUT Adam if you can't see politics in the above post then you are absolutely blind and need to go see Charlie for an eye exam.
I edited Larry's post to remove the sections that could be seen as partisan.

Otherwise, he was factual: The tariffs had real consequences, will continue to have real consequences, and we're discussing them here. Just like you did with inflation over the prior couple of years (search the old threads.)

Thanks
Adam
 
So can we discuss why the tariffs are being used in the first place? Or are only negative views permitted?
I mean, you can, but the reality is the "why" is not important -- politicians give all kinds of justifications for their actions, it isn't really that helpful (since truth isn't their forte.) Smoot and Hawley also had ideas in 1930, and they were way off-base.

What is important to everyone here are the impacts the tariffs are having, and how we are supposed to navigate this instability.

Why the political class is doing this to the rest of us is -- bluntly -- above everyone's pay grade here, and isn't really helpful to the survival of anyone's business. But if you want to talk about it, sure...
 
I am not talking about inflation right now but if you can't read post #20 and not see politics then I can't help you. I like Larry alot. He is a great guy and a great doc that cares for his patients but his post is blatantly political.

It is no secret that I lean way conservative BUT I have gone out of my way to not engage in politics since the rules were changed right about the time Biden was elected. That is fine with me, your house your rules, but lets not suddenly develop blindness now that a new guy is POTUS.

It is stuff precisely like this that has led to no less than at least 15-20 posters no longer posting here. You don't see it but others do.
I have to agree with you Mike, he could have made his point without the political punch down, as in..... "Is he finally figuring out and understanding the local, regional, national, international negative impacts of his trade war or simply manipulating the stock market for his wealthy friends?"

Clearly a partisan biased statement, whether rooted in reality or not. It's plain to see how our conservative members get offended when that is allowed and other benign comments are deleted.
 
I edited Larry's post to remove the sections that could be seen as partisan.

Otherwise, he was factual: The tariffs had real consequences, will continue to have real consequences, and we're discussing them here. Just like you did with inflation over the prior couple of years (search the old threads.)

Thanks
Adam
I think it would have been more productive to have Larry edit his own post to see if he is even aware of his violations of YOUR rules.
 
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Thank you, Mike.

You are correct on two points.

1.My post was political. At least because it is a reflection about how the current administration is manipulating the economic stability of our country and the entire world. Not to mention the stock market. And this all absolutely relates to viability of our professional practices.

2.You wrote about the "disastrous economic policies I have 4 years of pent up complaints."

I understand and respect your conservative viewpoint, except it's not just the previous 4 years and the previous administration, it goes back friggin' decades. This is not a new issue.

We've got academically and professional trained government economic policy advisors who don't know how to get out of their own way and oftentimes make things worse. For the "average Joe" we've got so-called financial advisors who may or may not have the fiduciary responsibility to you and me, and then there is the icing on the cake: the media talking and typing heads who exist to sell advertising.

I am all in favor of "made in the USA." I do my best to support American manufacturers. I am okay with paying a little more to not buy stuff made in China. Creating American jobs is critical to our financial and political independence. But the current firings and tariffs are doing the exact opposite. They are hurting people. We have to embrace the global economy and find more appropriate ways to stimulate American manufacturing and jobs. The previous administration had been at least somewhat successful in doing that. What the current administration is doing is simply tragic, short-sighted and hurtful and pretty soon that bubble is going to explode.

Maybe that's the intention.
 
I think it would have been more productive to have Larry edit his own post to see if he is even aware of his violations of YOUR rules.
Enough offering Adam advice how to manage ODwire.org. He has the credential and experience in Social media.

I suspect most ODs would resent if Adam offered advice on how to run their practice.
 
I mean, you can, but the reality is the "why" is not important -- politicians give all kinds of justifications for their actions, it isn't really that helpful (since truth isn't their forte.) Smoot and Hawley also had ideas in 1930, and they were way off-base.

What is important to everyone here are the impacts the tariffs are having, and how we are supposed to navigate this instability.

Why the political class is doing this to the rest of us is -- bluntly -- above everyone's pay grade here, and isn't really helpful to the survival of anyone's business. But if you want to talk about it, sure...
Now? Now you are concerned about what the political class is doing to businesses? Wonder what changed?

The political class has hammered American businesses for years via increased taxes, requiring them to provide healthcare, having to compete against cheap foreign labor from nearly unchecked immigration, moving jobs overseas, and lets not forget forcing workers to be fired for not taking a shot. Where was this concern then?
 
Thank you, Mike.

You are correct on two points.

1.My post was political. At least because it is a reflection about how the current administration is manipulating the economic stability of our country and the entire world. Not to mention the stock market. And this all absolutely relates to viability of our professional practices.

2.You wrote about the "disastrous economic policies I have 4 years of pent up complaints."

I understand and respect your conservative viewpoint, except it's not just the previous 4 years and the previous administration, it goes back friggin' decades. This is not a new issue.

We've got academically and professional trained government economic policy advisors who don't know how to get out of their own way and oftentimes make things worse. For the "average Joe" we've got so-called financial advisors who may or may not have the fiduciary responsibility to you and me, and then there is the icing on the cake: the media talking and typing heads who exist to sell advertising.

I am all in favor of "made in the USA." I do my best to support American manufacturers. I am okay with paying a little more to not buy stuff made in China. Creating American jobs is critical to our financial and political independence. But the current firings and tariffs are doing the exact opposite. They are hurting people. We have to embrace the global economy and find more appropriate ways to stimulate American manufacturing and jobs. The previous administration had been at least somewhat successful in doing that. What the current administration is doing is simply tragic, short-sighted and hurtful and pretty soon that bubble is going to explode.

Maybe that's the intention.
You are exactly right Larry in that I was wrong about it being only 4 years. This has gone on a long time and involves both parties which is why November 5th went the way it did.
 
I have to agree with you Mike, he could have made his point without the political punch down, as in..... "Is he finally figuring out and understanding the local, regional, national, international negative impacts of his trade war or simply manipulating the stock market for his wealthy friends?"

Clearly a partisan biased statement, whether rooted in reality or not. It's plain to see how our conservative members get offended when that is allowed and other benign comments are deleted.
I edited the comments after it was reported - what more do you want?
 
I think it would have been more productive to have Larry edit his own post to see if he is even aware of his violations of YOUR rules.
I am and I do not think this is a partisan issue. If it is, it is only because there's a partisan who is causing the issue. I would not care what kind of partisan was responsible. It is what it is. I was simply pointing that out.

You are exactly right Larry in that I was wrong about it being only 4 years. This has gone on a long time and involves both parties which is why November 5th went the way it did.
Yup. As I wrote above. This is not a single partisan issue. People on both sides of the political spectrum are rightly concerned about how (some/many?) our elected officials have not been doing their jobs. For years. Across many administrations.
 
I edited the comments after it was reported - what more do you want?
I was typing my comment BEFORE I knew you made an edit or that it was reported. I don't report anything, I post it for all to see.
 
You are exactly right Larry in that I was wrong about it being only 4 years. This has gone on a long time
The problems with tariffs -- which have been known about for >100 years now -- is that they tend to raise consumer prices. Any type of trade war does. Grab a macroeconomics textbook, you'll see it in black and white.

Particularly in this modern economy where any moderately complex good will be made with parts sourced literally all over the globe, any sort of tariff is going to have a ripple effect on prices. Again, this is well-known.

And this won't help stuff be "Made in America" in any appreciable quantity -- at least not for decades.

You can't just spin up a chip factory, it takes the better part of 10 years to set up. If you can even find the right expertise to do it. (Good luck hiring away TSMC's best). Let alone setting up the industries that surround the chip foundry (there are a constellation of necessary ancillary businesses that service the chip plant itself). There's a whole infrastructure that literally does not exist in America right now. And no tariff is going to fix that.

How about an auto plant? 3-5 years at least to construct. Let alone the plants of the parts suppliers that you're going to need to produce their products nearby, so they can avoid tariffs as well. And on and on it goes ...

But I'll start off with my first supplier "price increase" letter today. This one from Microsoft -- a 30% price increase! They didn't attribute it directly to the tariffs, but boy their timing was suspicious (ie, they are using the instability as an opportunity... this is kind of thing I want people to be on the lookout for. I obviously can't push back against MS, but if optical vendors try the same thing, you might have better luck...)

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I was typing my comment BEFORE I knew you made an edit or that it was reported. I don't report anything, I post it for all to see.
Reporting is much, much better because it alerts me to problems - I can't be everywhere all the time, I'm a human being. Not an AI (or so I'd have you believe...)